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itIXWVVCjADoMVnWBcp (#7483)
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itIXWVVCjADoMVnWBcp
by Mary (Anonymous User) on Saturday, March 24, 2012 @ 9:27:58 AM (#7483)
Sure. Betcha a dollar that dglefboien would bar the former as part of hisher vision of ‘religion out of the public square'. Fidelbogen?Betcha a dollar it's possible for even Christians to use a public space without sticking up a nativity scene. Just like it's possible for a Christian government worker to not go around wishing everyone a merry Christmas , or for a Christian teacher to avoid putting up a big poster saying Jesus saves or God bless all the little children on it.Some people might have apoplexy, but the failure of the government to provide a platform for religiously-motivated speech doesn't stop anyone from expressing such speech on their own platform.It's not obvious to me that a) there's a problem here that needs any other solution than the one we already haveWell, let's start here. What problem do you think there is here, and what solution do you think we have to keep it from happening?and b) that it's desirable to keep religion out of the public square. Religion is widely believed to be a favorable influence on society in general by society in generalHang on there a tick. Christians in general who make up the majority of the United States think that Christianity in general is a good thing. The students at a particular school may, in general, think that prayer to Our Lord Jesus Christ is a good thing. Heck, people at my high school were probably evenly divided among the people who thought that prayer to the Christian God was a good thing and people who thought that prayer to the Goddess was a good thing.What the majority of folks think is a good thing doesn't get government endorsement automatically. I mean, the trans community would probably have a problem with a giant display talking about How Evil Transvestites Are And People Should Just Stick To How God Made Them on the side of the courthouse, and that's not a very large part of society in general , but I'd bet society in general would agree with the statement.Which isn't to say they'd agree with having it put up but then, neither do many religious people, whether their reason is I believe in separation of church and state , I think religious displays are idol worship, or inviting it , it's tacky , or I think advertizing my religion from every street corner is acting too much like a Pharisee .and that fact that a minority feels differently doesn't mean that religious expression or any other kind of expression should be banned from the public square.And the fact that a minority students would feel left out if the valedictorian was allowed to lead the school in a prayer during the graduation ceremony for the local public high school doesn't mean that she shouldn't be allowed to do so.And the fact that a minority of students would feel like their teacher at that same school might discriminate against them for their political views if their teacher shared his own with them doesn't mean that he shouldn't be prohibited from it.Oh wait public school, it does have to make sure to represent the multiplicity of opinions unless there's a real educational or institutional reason why not. Public school teacher, he does have to keep his discomforting opinions out of the classroom unless there's a pedagogical purpose for having them in.Public square. Hmm, I wonder if there's a connection there.Allowing a public school valedictorian to talk about how God changed her life all she wants during the graduation speech, even though it was against the rules and she knew it, but cutting off the taxpayer-funded microphone and sound system.Keeping public schoolteachers from expressing their religious views during school time on school property, but allowing them to let it all hang out, man, when they're off-duty.Keeping public property free of religious displays and paraphernalia unless there's compelling governmental interest in having it there. Banning religious expression from the public square so that people can't even go through it while wearing a cross pendant, or a hijab, or a turban. Or just banning all theists and otherwise religiously-oriented folks, I'm not exactly sure which strawman you're attacking.One of these things is not like the others .Because the exercise of the right to freedom of expression is far more important than whether or not it makes people feel uncomfortable. God knows that feminism makes lots of people uncomfortable. Should that be the next thing banned from the public square?So you are in favor of my feminism-related dioramas and posters going up. I assume that means you're also O.K. with my evolution display, my bacon-cat statue, my Snape diorama, and of course my monuments to Pluto and to atheism? Not to mention my donkey wrapped in an American flag and my I like vanilla, it's the finest of the flavors poster.Look, if every time someone put up a Ten Commandments tablet we were also allowed to put up The Top Ten Really Evil Things Christians Have Done In The Name Of Their Religion list, and maybe an illuminated Principia Discordia, and the Pastafarian account of creation, and the Top Ten Reasons Why The Moon Is A Government Hoax, and so on, and then you could guarantee that they wouldn't get torn down, run over, painted over, hit with a sledgehammer, set on fire, or exorcised, I doubt you'd get quite so much opposition. As it is, though, the response to all or nothing seems to be Christianity! (and maybe Judaism too) , which, obviously, isn't a valid answer, no matter how a big a majority thinks that Judeo-Christianity , whatever that is, is an integral part of our national identity and no matter how small the minority made to feel like second-class citizens because of it. All could get a little bit crowded, and unless the government really wants to have flat-earth dioramas and Have You Accepted The Love of Severus Snape Into Your Heart posters on every available surface, there'd have to be moderation beyond no attacking people or groups directly , and that could, obviously, get sticky. Has gotten sticky, with the moderation most of these towns and public schools seem to have, i.e., rubberstamp Christians and Jews and then deny the Pastafarians their tasteful FSM light display, or look the other way when vandals destroy the Wiccan pentacle-wreaths and then declare that it's too much of a hassle, nothing religious allowed because then we'd have to let all the other religions put up displays too.
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